BURNING THE GROUND EXCLUSIVE 1985
REQUEST
“Sub-Culture” released in November 1985, is the tenth single by New Order.
It was the second and final single that also appeared on the group’s album release of the same year, Low-Life. A seven inch edit of the Robie remix taken from the Benelux version of the “Sub-culture” single appears on the group’s 1987 compilation, Substance.
The song has stirred some controversy with attempts to understand the lyrics being unsubstantiated by the group itself, particularly the use of the word shaft with its possible sexual connotations; i.e. “You’ll realize you can’t shaft without someone else”.
John Robie’s 12″ and 7″ single mixes provides a significant departure from the album version, using prominent vocals which feature Ish Ledesma of Foxy and Oxo with female backing singers. The version of the song Bernard sings in the remix has an altered line (whether it was intentional or not is unclear), changing the second verse’s line “A view without a room” into “A room without a view”. The remix was not very well received and garnered more attention for Robie’s extensive rework, that managed to be less-club friendly than the original album version despite his attempts to input greater melodic range. In spite of the poor reaction and sales, New Order and Robie collaborated for the band’s next two singles “Shellshock” and “State of the Nation” B-side “Shame of the Nation”.
On the UK Indepebdant singles chart the song reached #1 while on the UK Singles Chart it peaked at #63. In the US “Sub-Culture” reached #35 on the Billboard Dance chart and #18 for dance single sales.
SIDE A:
Sub-Culture (Remix) 7:25
Remix – John Robie
SIDE B:
Subvulture 7:55
Remix – John Robie
Sub-Culture 4:57
VINYL GRADE:
Vinyl: Near Mint
Sleeve: Near Mint (generic)
U.S. CHART HISTORY:
| Year | Single | Chart | Position |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1985 | Sub-Culture | U.S. Billboard Hot Dance Music/Club Play | #35 |
| 1985 | Sub-Culture | U.S. Billboard Hot Maxi-Singles Sales | #18 |
RELEASE INFORMATION:
Label: Qwest Records – 0-20390
Format: Vinyl, 12″, 45 RPM
Country: US
Released: 1985
Genre: Electronic
Style: Synth-pop
Credits: Mastered By – Herbie Jr.*
Producer, Written-By – New Order
NOTES:
A (Re)production of John Robie.
45 rotations per minute.
Original version on the Qwest album “LOW-LIFE”
Find The 12″ On DISCOGS
EQUIPMENT USED:
Turntable: Pro-Ject Debut III
Cartridge: Ortofon Super
Stylus: Ortofon OM Stylus 30
Platter: Pro-Ject Acryl-It platter
Speed Control: Pro-Ject Speed Box S
Phono Pre-amp: Bellari VP130 Tube Phono Preamp
Tube: Tung-Sol 12AX7ECC803-S Gold Electron Tube
Soundcard: ESI Juli@
Record Cleaning: VPI HW 16.5 Record Cleaning Machine
Artwork Scans: Brother MFC-6490CW Professional Series Scanner
SOFTWARE USED:
Recording/Editing: Adobe Audition 3.0 (Recording)
Down Sampling: iZotope RX Advanced 2
Artwork Editor: Adobe Photoshop CS5
Click Removeal: ClickRepair (DeClick Level 3)
FLAC/MP3 Conversion: dBpoweramp
M3U Playlist: Playlist Creator
RESTORATION NOTES:
All vinyl rips are recorded @ 32bit/float
FLAC (Level Eight)
MP3 (320kbps)
Artwork scanned at 600dpi
Hi DjPaulT. Thank you for the post but I personally feel that the A-Side John Robie “Remix” is one of his worst. It’s very disjointed with bad stuttering edits. I think he fell into the eighties stutter trap like so many other remix producers did. This type of remix effect may have been cool at the time but most songs that used an abundance of the “stutter edit effect” don’t really stand the test of time for me and sound very outdated. There is a reason this remix was not well received at the time… Simply put, it was quite… Read more »
Hi Paul (again) – I think it might be the same as on 7fac133:
https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Sub-Culture/release/505855
based on the last track on:
DR: US 2001 (Warner Bros/Qwest) [“Various 7″ Versions”]
(see 4:55 Sub-Culture [BL 7″] on:
http://www.niagara.edu/neworder/albums/rihcdr2k1.html
Nigel
Hi Paul – just listed to:
B2 Sub-Culture 4:57
All the discography sites list this as the album version (presumably because it has the same duration) but on listening, it is clearly a different mix not found anywhere else (?) Has nobody else noticed this, or am a going crazy?
Nigel
Thank you, Paul! I love reading the history behind the songs!
OK, listening to the Razormaid mix with the different Debora vocals is a different beast altogether. THAT is definitely ugly. Good lord. John Robie did the right thing by allowing the perfect anonymous amount of her voice in the mix.
I’m still trying to shake it off. *shudder*. LoL 😉
New Order always made us listen differently … this was the first time I heard ‘noise’ used musical and percussively and opened my ears.
Paul, it’s excellent reading all these wonderful comments concerning John Robie and his mix of “Sub-Culture”. Thanks for making this rip a reality. I’m hoping people will seek out John’s music and productions. He’s famous for playing the Kraftwerk inspired “Planet Rock” and other productions with Arthur Baker. He did C-Bank’s “One More Shot” and “Get Wet” which are great dance “art” records. He co-wrote and performed “Hip Hop Be Bop (Don’t Stop)” with Man Parish. Produced Jenny Burton’s first LP “In Black and White” which is an electro classic. Did Jellybean’s “Dancing On The Fire” which is a fantastic… Read more »
“A lot of people hated her vocal contibution!” Sigh. There will always be people who love to hate something, and unfortunately the internet age has welcomed them with open arms. There are also people who love and are amazed by that same thing, and when it comes to Sub-culture, and its John Robie reinvention, and Subvulture (especially), and the vocal contributions by Debora and Ish, and New Order themselves for that matter, I am one of those people! These mixes have kept my love and fascination for almost 30 years now. Subvulture even offers further ‘aural delights’ when heard on… Read more »
Thanks, Paul! Both of these mixes finally appeared on Disc 2 of the remastered “Low life” 2008 CD package. The first pressings had audio issues, but were corrected and re-issued with different catalogue numbers. The album version was more obviously dancey, but the production was cringy. The remix was mad and ballsy – I prefered it, even if it wasn’t perfect. I could stomach the crazy effects and disjointed drums edits, but always felt the kick was too clicky and not thuddy enough (why he didn’t use a Roland TR-909 then is beyond me!) and the snare wasn’t great either.… Read more »
Thanks for the great sounding rip. Regarding the additional vocals credited to Debora Iyall; is it the same Debora Iyall of Romeo Void? All the best.
Thank you Kookoo. Yes it is the same Debora Iyall from Romeo Void 🙂
Thanks, Paul! Love when you branch out to cool new stuff I’ve never heard … then bring it back to New Order, Depeche Mode, Duran Duran, etc. 🙂
My pleasure Mike 🙂 Enjoy!
Sorry for my absence last week as I was down with flu.
One of my favourites from New Order!
Thanks for working your magic here, Paul. I already feel much better!
Yes, John Robie did a wonderful remix for The Lucky One, and don’t forget to check out his production for Freeez and John Rocca too.
I am glad to see you again Ric I was a bit worried about you. I hope you are feeling better that flu is a terrible thing. Sending you a smile 🙂
thank you, sir
You’re very welcome Dean 🙂
First, thanks Paul for this great rip! Some people love the 12″ version, some love the album version. This war will never gonna end… This is the only New Order single without a cover because the artist of their covers didn’t like this song at all 🙂 There are at last 3 Razormaid mixes for this song. Each of them is different and all of them are different from both the album and the 12″ versions (see below why). On one of these versions there is additional vocals by Deborah Iyall. Hmmm…. there’s also 4th version – “exclusive mix” which… Read more »
You’re welcome Ziv. Thanks for all of the info 🙂
Another NO song I’m unfamiliar with. Thanks for the education. 🙂
Who’s that female on backing vocals – certainly not Gillian!?!
You’re welcome Jermajesty. I think her name is Deborah Iyall.
Debora Iyall, a Cowlitz Native American, was lead singer for the new wave band Romeo Void. In 1969, at age fourteen, Iyall joined the Occupation of Alcatraz and stayed for six days. (The Occupation lasted nineteen months.) While attending the San Francisco Art Institute, she created Romeo Void in 1979. Inspired by Joy Division[citation needed], the band was remarkable for their modernization of the punk sound, and for Iyall’s forceful, half-spoken delivery. They reached hit status on college radio stations with the suggestive and multi-leveled song “Never Say Never” in 1982. Their song “A Girl in Trouble (Is a Temporary… Read more »
There was also an exclusive remix on a Record Mirror EP – http://www.discogs.com/Various-The-RM-EP/release/198311 – based on the Razormaid edit of the Robie remix that had a more Hi-NRG feel. Worth picking up if you don’t already have it.
Thanks for the info Jonathan. I don’t have that 7″ so I will check it out 🙂
You’re welcome, Paul. The pressing quality wasn’t great (it’s a freebie at 33.3rpm, after all) so it’ll need an extra layer of your magic to get it to posting level 🙂
I only have the 7″ version which is on Substance. Now thanks to you Paul, I have the ext. too.
You’re welcome Omar. Enjoy!
Hey, I thought the line was: “You’ll Realize you can’t chat without someone else.” Shaft? Really!?! Go figure.
Jeff
Kind of an ood lyric 🙂
Paul, this is phenomenal of you. As a HUGE John Robie fan — dare I say his biggest fan — I love this (re)production of his. I think the song kicks serious ass and the production and John’s famous mix tricks make this an outrageous New Order record. I even like the fact that it was controversial too. John ran with it and delivered; as I see it, with all of John Robie productions, it’s not just the artist’s record, it’s a “John Robie Record.” I so wanted him to have a “proper” solo career, but as long as there… Read more »
Hi Jeff I really like the remix as you mentioned the “Dub” “Suubvulture” is pretty wild lots of things going on. I am not overly familiar with Robie’s material but the mixes I have heard are quite good. I had forgotten that he did a remix of “The Lucky One” by Laura Branigan. I hope you enjoy my rip 🙂
heh! The UK/Australian 12″ had different labels (designed by Saville); those US labels look like attempts to mimic the design of The Perfect Kiss (their previous single). The B-Side for UK/AU was titled “Dubvulture” too.